tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post1059361818648711462..comments2023-10-20T11:17:47.246-04:00Comments on Two Nerdy History Girls: The Incomparable Red of CochinealUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-61813358231822166432012-05-10T01:41:11.585-04:002012-05-10T01:41:11.585-04:00I think vegans are more concerned with how the pop...I think vegans are more concerned with how the popularity of bugs in drinks will soon lead to a mass production of bugs, bred solely for the purpose of brightening drinks (or something of that sort). <br /><br />I am a vegetarian myself, and the way meat industry in general operates is way more worrying than people choosing to eat meat, which is their choice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-88664146773171043892012-05-05T20:14:23.160-04:002012-05-05T20:14:23.160-04:00I did some plant-based dying a few years ago - gre...I did some plant-based dying a few years ago - great fun, but there's a reason that once upon a time, the dyers and tanners were kept in their own quarter or preferably: outside the town! At least these days, you can buy NaOH in nice, white, odorless tablets. <br /><br />I learned in one history lecture that for an especially glorious entry, Cleopatra once sailed down the Nile in her personal barque. With sails died purple, either wither kermes or cochineal, I'm not sure. I suspect the only reason she didn't have them embroidered with gold was that she already used that color on the barque. <br /><br />And I'm so glad you posted the image of the embroidery! It's lovely. Yay reenactors. Awesome information source on craft of all kinds.<br /><br />As for the strawberry frappucinos - I can't blame anyone, vegan or other, for not being thrilled by the idea of ground-up beetles in their drinks. (I know, extracts.) Though that wouldn't worry me half as much as most of the other ingredients - I very much doubt a strawberry frapuccino ever comes within gargling distance of a strawberry, unless the customer brings one along. The most sensible thing said on that: Why not color them with strawberries?Julianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-28413831926389618652012-05-05T10:15:56.891-04:002012-05-05T10:15:56.891-04:00I have seen interpreters at Old Sturbridge Village...I have seen interpreters at Old Sturbridge Village dying cloth with cochineal - in kettles hung on tripods over an outdoor fire in July. If you are thinking of going there, you might call them and ask when they will be dying cloth.Debnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-88925709822557588562012-05-04T10:45:26.330-04:002012-05-04T10:45:26.330-04:00@nightmusic: I was scarred for life after looking ...@nightmusic: I was scarred for life after looking at a piece of cheese under a microscope in my junior high biology class. *shudder*Isobel Carrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03153722955365985930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-86121760092600173032012-05-03T21:54:01.557-04:002012-05-03T21:54:01.557-04:00@ Isobel Carr
I laughed out loud at your comment,...@ Isobel Carr<br /><br />I laughed out loud at your comment, but it's so very, very true. I wonder if they know how many bugs we all consume during our sleep...<br /><br />I love the color red. Vibrant, passionate, emotional. I prefer the bugs to any cancer causing agents any day.nightsmusichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05984119792540771870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-5210839480759456402012-05-03T16:53:43.112-04:002012-05-03T16:53:43.112-04:00Tanya, many thanks for so much excellent informati...Tanya, many thanks for so much excellent information - fascinating to learn about the ancient & medieval uses of kermes as a red dye.Isabella Bradford/Susan Holloway Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00997375216314200469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-32361414520284636182012-05-03T12:36:01.443-04:002012-05-03T12:36:01.443-04:00erm, actually, true red didn't elude medieval ...erm, actually, true red didn't elude medieval dyers at all, but it was ridiculously expensive. since the time of the ancient greeks a european relative of cochineal, the kermes beetle(coccus illicis, as opposed to coccus cacti) was used for the most prized of reds.<br /><br />when the greek raided troy, they found in king priam's treasure house all the things one expected a great king to hoard, not only gold and silver, but cloth dyed red and purple.<br /><br />In fact the name scarlet came to mean red becuase at first scarlet was the most prized and expensive quality of cloth - but you could buy blue, white, red, green, etc, scarlets. eventually, because red from kermes was so expensive, the cloth adn colour became synonymous.<br /><br />kermes did not fall out of use because it was inadequate, but because it was so much more difficult and time consuming to harvest - it turned out to be cheaper to ship cochineal from the new world than to bring kermes (also known as grain) from the med.<br /><br />yet despite this dyers all over europe complained about the new dyes inferior quality for almost a century. they said that the colour was niether so intense, nor so lasting.<br /><br />If you look hard enough you can still find kermes to dye with, there is small scale revival in production associated with conservation measures for the beetle and the tree in which is breeds. I've used it myself. However, cochineal for dyeing stands at roughly, £5 per 100g, whereas last time I bought any, kermes was £5 per 1gtanyahttp://opusanglicanum.wordpres.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-25147671242300163292012-05-03T12:06:05.467-04:002012-05-03T12:06:05.467-04:00This was incredibly interesting!
Thanks! BTW, I v...This was incredibly interesting! <br />Thanks! BTW, I vote for "bugs", too!Marinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11013945495472352230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-30264057511141600462012-05-03T11:55:13.110-04:002012-05-03T11:55:13.110-04:00This is absolutely fascinating. I learn the most i...This is absolutely fascinating. I learn the most interesting things reading your wonderful blog. Thanks for posting this.Rosihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01294774973863802821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-52158237915252811132012-05-03T11:37:20.899-04:002012-05-03T11:37:20.899-04:00I learned about this in Old Town San Diego a coupl...I learned about this in Old Town San Diego a couple of months ago. There was a very old cactus behind the oldest house there, and the tour guide rubbed the casing left on the cactus and had a red finger. It came up again when my husband and I were watching a BBC show about food additives, etc. So interesting!Lynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04818810839781851407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-82648521809874202532012-05-03T11:10:44.743-04:002012-05-03T11:10:44.743-04:00I suspect the food industry would say: "but c...I suspect the food industry would say: "but consumers expect it to be redder than strawberries alone can make it!" To which I'd reply: "Yeah, and who made us expect it to be that way?"<br /><br />Though a lighter shade of Twizzlers is an altogether different matter....Isabella Bradford/Susan Holloway Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00997375216314200469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-29352459588636942742012-05-03T10:41:36.477-04:002012-05-03T10:41:36.477-04:00Interesting post--I vote for bugs!
I love reading...Interesting post--I vote for bugs!<br /><br />I love reading about dyes--fascinating subject.JaneGShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11094501834387622997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-82935910376440839622012-05-03T10:30:37.822-04:002012-05-03T10:30:37.822-04:00I think most of us had the same thought at KWillow...I think most of us had the same thought at KWillow! I know I did. And it's no use pointing out to Vegans that everything they eat is crawling with microscopic fauna. It just winds them up and sets them off.Isobel Carrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03153722955365985930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-35263137497026401172012-05-03T09:16:31.702-04:002012-05-03T09:16:31.702-04:00I love this! I never knew so much went into the ma...I love this! I never knew so much went into the making of my favorite color.Elisabeth Crisphttp://elisabethcrisp.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-4080271403441437512012-05-03T09:06:55.662-04:002012-05-03T09:06:55.662-04:00I've often wondered why cochineal replaced ker...I've often wondered why cochineal replaced kermes and grain, also bugs ground up for rich red colours [kermes tending towards vermillion]; was it perhaps cheaper than those Medieval standbys that made 'scarlatten' - any deep rich colour containing one of those two dies, including the best blacks - the most expensive cloths of the day outside of figured velvets with much gold woven into the pattern. Or was it that cochineal took better when dyeing cotton, linen and silk? one tends to think of scarlatten as a woollen cloth.Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03121102757759349165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-47149238527431894332012-05-03T00:23:52.380-04:002012-05-03T00:23:52.380-04:00Couldn't Starbucks just put strawberries in th...Couldn't Starbucks just put strawberries in their strawberry frappuccinos?Kathyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03176801494652946278noreply@blogger.com