tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post6069471987974062140..comments2023-10-20T11:17:47.246-04:00Comments on Two Nerdy History Girls: One More Lady in a Pink Sultana, 1775Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-89575590191492482872014-12-19T02:33:08.181-05:002014-12-19T02:33:08.181-05:00I really liked this post and I remembered it yeste...I really liked this post and I remembered it yesterday, when I visited the Haags Historisch Museum (Historical Museum of The Hague). <br />Unfortunately, the website ( http://www.haagshistorischmuseum.nl/tentoonstelling/rivalen-aan-het-haagse-hof ) doesn't have a full English version and it doesn't show many images from the exhibits. I went to see the display "Rivals at the The Hague court" about Elizabeth Stuart (the winter queen) and Amalia of Solms (who started out as her lady-in-waiting and went on the marry stadholder Frederick Henry). There was a large room dedicated to the ladies' competition in fashion and art and this included quite a number of portraits of both, by the same artist at painted at roughly the same time. And they were definitely wearing the same costumes or posing with the same props in some of them. And in the attempt to out-do each other in a display of wealth and style, their own, fashionable dress and jewelry was also often very much alike. Laurianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16602295642057814667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-68689446168957448002014-12-15T08:53:28.771-05:002014-12-15T08:53:28.771-05:00In fact, trying to imagine a plausible workflow ma...In fact, trying to imagine a plausible workflow makes me very curious about the social positions of painters compared to the various other providers of somewhat intimate and/or prestigious professional services, like dancing-masters, landscape and interior designers, fencing-masters, tutors, and so on. All presumably very different from each other. It seemed unlikely to me that a lady of rank would change clothes in a painter's studio or wear a dress not made for her, although of course she might dress up at home in things she owned. I wonder whether my intuition is correct.msHedgehoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05719152265628932122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-23116421788437131142014-12-15T08:41:24.013-05:002014-12-15T08:41:24.013-05:00This is a very interesting discussion. I am curiou...This is a very interesting discussion. I am curious about how the process actually worked, from the desire to the result. When you think about the logistics, you can see how very advantageous it would be for the painter to be able to present himself as a gentleman, if possible.msHedgehoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05719152265628932122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-22824364156856153782014-12-13T07:56:11.885-05:002014-12-13T07:56:11.885-05:00fascinating . Thank you
speaking of portraits Re...fascinating . Thank you<br /><br /> speaking of portraits Recently we saw the DVD Belle -- a wonderful movie which the screenwriter ceated (if I remember correctly) from having seen a portrait of 2 aristocratic cousins, one white and one mulatto; I thought perhap sit had been a book -- like the ones you write.Cindynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-71868649296634409742014-12-12T20:55:16.189-05:002014-12-12T20:55:16.189-05:00msHedgehog & Elena,
I didn't have an answ...msHedgehog & Elena, <br />I didn't have an answer to your suggestion that perhaps the artist used stand-in models for his sitter. I know this was a practice at the time, with some sitters leaving their clothing with the artist, too. But I don't specifically know if Joseph Wright is known to have done this.<br /><br />And so, thanks to the magic of Twitter, I asked someone who would know. Lucy Bamford is the Senior Curator, Fine Art & the Joseph Wright Collection, at the Derby Museum. Her reply: <br /><br />"Interesting question! Not much is know of Joseph Wright's studio, but given the dismembered appearance of the Derby Museum's "Anne Borrow" (link below), it seems possible. He also kept a stock of studies from his training days in [the painter Thomas] Hudson's studio, including drapery and poses. A single set of entries in the back of his account book (undated) describes the appearance of some local girls, suggesting an intention to use them as models. He clearly worked from life in a lot of cases, and friends modelled." http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/anne-borrow-d-1799-61196]Isabella Bradford/Susan Holloway Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00997375216314200469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-51014500911753252662014-12-12T20:51:11.144-05:002014-12-12T20:51:11.144-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Isabella Bradford/Susan Holloway Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00997375216314200469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-44444937873006590762014-12-12T19:57:37.856-05:002014-12-12T19:57:37.856-05:00Sarah,
You make good points about an artist wantin...Sarah,<br />You make good points about an artist wanting to put the sitter at ease. For an 18th c. sitter, being in relatively "informal" clothing carried another, class-conscious message, too - that they HAD the money and leisure to dress this way, and to indulge in a bit of fantasy, too.Isabella Bradford/Susan Holloway Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00997375216314200469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-50348305039934842022014-12-12T09:49:07.218-05:002014-12-12T09:49:07.218-05:00I agree with Isabella Bradford/Susan H Scott readi...I agree with Isabella Bradford/Susan H Scott reading of this painting. It is intentionally sad - the cut off branch suggesting the cutting off of a bough of the family tree, the death perhaps of a child or a husband, the funerary urn with ivy, its evergreen leaves an ancient symbol of eternal life. All confirmed by the melancholy expression of the sitter who seeks solace in her Bible.sibylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09707470688927487717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-58306860605996654322014-12-12T01:02:46.948-05:002014-12-12T01:02:46.948-05:00msHedgehog brought up a point I hadn't thought...msHedgehog brought up a point I hadn't thought of. Thank you. With the ladies' completely different poses it's hard to tell if the body is the same, but I would guess the poses certainly were chosen by the models. Perhaps the unknown sitter's expression and manner are so much more realistic because she did sit longer than Mrs. Hesketh - which would suggest a much more engaging personality too, even if she couldn't pay as much as Mrs. Hesketh. An interesting contrast: the unknown lady engages us, she looks like someone who would be pleasant and has personality. The identified woman, on the other hand, is as interesting, and as engaged, as the tree behind her.Elena Jardinizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18335079548380273268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-58522618209427825792014-12-11T13:32:33.782-05:002014-12-11T13:32:33.782-05:00Is it not even more likely that the dress was neve...Is it not even more likely that the dress was never worn by either sitter, but by a professional model who posed for the figure while the clients, like Holbein's, sat only for the face, and perhaps the hands?msHedgehoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05719152265628932122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-12763764108441432322014-12-11T08:03:15.245-05:002014-12-11T08:03:15.245-05:00Fascinating the idea of using studio prop costumes...Fascinating the idea of using studio prop costumes. A sultana would be more comfortable for a sitter as well. Perhaps it was as much to put them at ease as for the costume itself... it's very difficult when the client is ill at ease, and not entirely comfortableSarah Waldockhttp://sarahs-history-place.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5022318990784415929.post-25377700505029937162014-12-11T07:35:56.195-05:002014-12-11T07:35:56.195-05:00Mulling over Mrs. Hesketh further this morning - I...Mulling over Mrs. Hesketh further this morning - I'm wondering about the significance (because it HAS to have a significance!) of the cut-off tree limb. Did someone in her family recently die? Is she reading a religious book that's giving her comfort regarding her loss? Is she looking up in the direction of that cut-off branch and thinking of the departed? Yet she's clearly not dressed in mourning. Hmmm....Isabella Bradford/Susan Holloway Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00997375216314200469noreply@blogger.com